conehead Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 So, are the pilots at Air Canada being offered enhanced travel passes with this new contract? Any pilots care to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Priority upgrades and travel for all Captains and AME's who are licenced and endorsed on type (on each type their licence is currently valid for)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 There is no language on passes contained in the TA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 My understanding was that the Policy for pass privileges was outside of any CA. The policy is a Company policy and not negotiable in any CA by any group. The policy is amended as required by the company and not subject to any employee group approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The detail of travel pass policy will be subject to the whim of management,until someone decides it's time to include their groups travel benefits within the protection of the CA. Perhaps the Associations could form an agreement in which Captains would enjoy a travel benefit aligned with that available to senior management and the FO's with middle-management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Ahem.....Why exactly? We are all Employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Why should one group of contract employees be entitled to something the other contract employees aren't?The only thing I see coming from this is that it will end badly for all employee groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 There is no language on passes contained in the TAMaybe not, but as a "thank you" for the ten year tentative agreement you are being given a higher priority for travel 3 times a year, correct? It may not be in the contract itself, but it's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Ok, I fall back to my original position.... Scrap all flying! We're destroying ourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Perhaps the Associations could form an agreement in which Captains would enjoy a travel benefit aligned with that available to senior management and the FO's with middle-management?I'm a Captain and I think that's a horrible idea. All leisure passes should go date-of-hire. That includes management and employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Scrap all flying! We're destroying ourselves!The problem with the world is that people just can't decide where they want to be - pick a place and stay there! All this moving around - causes lots of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.O. Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 ... and we should all be thankful that they aren't listening to your advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 If I understand some of the above correctly; because they have a 'contract of employment', pilots should be considered to be, just another employee and treated like everyone else, other than management, by management whim & decree? Why then for instance, would a CEO by virtue of his 'contract of employment' be entitled to perks such as 'first class' C1 guaranteed passes for life, regardless of whether he even goes so far as to takes up a position with a new airline venture / competitor? I know it sounds arrogant, but pilots get paid a heck of a lot more than most everyone else in the corporate structure because of their management responsibilities. So then Seeker; why would you want a mid-level executive that was hired last month to take care of things like 'diversity' to be more deserving of a higher travel pass priority than yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Krikey!... I didn't read him saying that?? What've I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I do like Seeker's inclusion of management into a travel pass priority system that, other than seniority, is based on the principal of 'equality for all', but I know management won't, meaning, you'll never see that modification to the program. As it now stands, I've always found it distasteful to watch as management gets one group, or another to dance for travel cookies as they see fit. If for no other reason, this practice leaves me in favour of adding travel benefits to the negotiation of a CA. While we're here, I'll add that I think the entire travel policy is in need of revision. Far too many people are flying for free on passes which amongst other things, makes the system an expensive and unwieldy monster to manage. I know it's not a popular idea, but I think there should be real limitations to pass travel placed on retirees and in general, family members and friends too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acsidestick Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I made a post but deleted it as I realized I was posting from a Company document, which is Verbotten.Retired CEO are not C1, they are PJ3/J10 - Pos Pass, Pos J class for life.... And their Parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Seeker; why would you want a mid-level executive that was hired last month to take care of things like 'diversity' to be more deserving of a higher travel pass priority than yourself?Ahhh, I don't want that. I was saying that if it was up to me I'd have everyone in the company on straight date-of-hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Just curious why you guys wouldn't want priority by first to check in is the first on priority list for all employees? It seems fair to me but I may be missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp fa Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Good plan. Cause that would hardly be like a combination of Survivor and the Hunger Games at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acsidestick Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Dont forget The Amazing Race, tied into getting 20 of your relatives to standby online for the last 2 seconds of an EBay bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 There are jobs at the Airline that you can get hired at 18 years old, with a grade 9 education. There are other jobs that require education and experience.Airlines are likely the only place where there is this delusion that the only currency, is "Seniority" within the company.A 40 years old Lawyer joins the corporation, he/she has been a practicing Lawyer for 15 years. Their net worth in the corporation is less than the janitor that got hired at 18 and at age 40 has 22 years of service.It is a big socialized joke, that does not exist in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Although, I suppose you could look at it from the point of view that your PAY is accorded by experience and value while PASSES are a benefit for all and seniority is accorded some significance.That theory goes out the window though when you look at pilot wages in the first 5 years compared to other empyee groups--whole new thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boestar Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 There is the Rub. ALL employee groups are awarded passes. That playing field needs to be level. PERIOD. No unfair advantage for one group or another AT THE SAME PASS LEVEL. C2 is a C2 boarded by Date of hire.C1 trumps C2 but C1 vs C1 is Date of hire.and so on through the pass groups.Date of hire is the only logical way to manage the system as anything else is open to interpretation and mismanagement. needless to say (we can see it here already) animosity among the employee groups. From the guy that scrubs the urinals to the guy that drives the big mahogany desk in the corner office, when is comes to passes, we should all be on the same playing field. PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockalicious Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I know the employee group is smaller but it works at WS.Different priority for pass holders, parents etc but all employees the same.I am not super familiar with AC passes but from my understanding you can be bumped at the last second with someone with more seniority? Wouldn't first come, first on list solve this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I am not super familiar with AC passes but from my understanding you can be bumped at the last second with someone with more seniority? Wouldn't first come, first on list solve this?Sure, it would "solve it" by allowing the junior person to go ahead of the senior one. Not really a solution as far as the senior person is concerned though is it? I'm not senior at all (in the grand scheme) but that's the way the system has been run forever so to change it now would mean that the senior person who put up with being junior in the past would now, possibly, not get to enjoy the benefit of their many years of service. That's the whole point of a seniority based system - the benefit becomes more valuable the longer you stay with the company - it's structured that way to be a reward for long service. This is not an unusual concept - almost any employer will have an escalating benefit such a vacation days - the longer you are at the company the more vacation days you accrue.Just to clarify, a person could not be bumped at the last second, the normal checkin cut-off rules apply - 45 minutes before the flight whoever is on the list according to seniority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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