How Big Will The Over Reaction Be This Time?

[Maverick]

First off, my thoughts are with the family of the Hamilton reservist gunned down at the war memorial and all of our men and women in uniform.

That being said, the pigs at the trough might actually have a tiny sense of fear.

I shudder at giving Harper any more power than he already has.

I've already seen calls for the War measures act on social media...

[Kip Powick]

CFB Trenton is locked down. Only one method of entry/exit. Armed guards all over the place.

What the hell happened in OW where a guy carrying a rifle can make it from the War Memorial to the Parliament buildings with no one, (in authority), confronting him???

[Maverick]

I don't know what happened but that news conference was absolutely pitiful.

Four idiots at a table for three not answering any questions of any value whatsoever.

[Kip Powick]

No doubt there will be a lot of CYA manoeuvering by ALL security Services in OW now.

[internet]

Righteous tolling during this time is not helpful.

[Kip Powick]

Righteous tolling during this time is not helpful.

Really?? You aren't concerned that a long gun was allowed to walk into our Parliament and no one did anything until after the fact... "During this time?"

Sorry, but "this time" should never have happened and someone should be held accountable. There is no excuse for allowing a rifle to be carried into parliament.

The head of the Secret Service was "canned" in the US and no one was killed during their "gate crashing" incident.

There is no righteous tolling in my post...I'm just posting what most people are thinking ..............and/or saying.

[DEFCON]

One media outlet is claiming it was the Parliamentary Master at Arms that took out the perp. Apparently, he had to return to his office to recover a real gun with which he took out the bad guy. From news video it looks like the other Mounties were all on coffee break when the event went down.

[Fido]

The sergeant-at-arms returned to his office to reload.

Most people that were in the Parliament building are commenting at how quickly the security forces got things under control.

[DEFCON]

That's a better sounding story, but it doesn't say much about the perps unmolested trip from the monument to Parliament after shooting the poor Soldier.

[Critter]

I don't know if the ceremonial guards have live ammunition or not but considering recent events, maybe they should.

[Wolfhunter]

Frankly, I thought they did a good job of handling the situation. Canada is not an island and this sort of thing was bound to happen; the event is not a surprise (the timing always is). There are numerous scenarios, timings and venues that could have been much, much worse. Canadians at large now realize they are not immune. That collective sentiment is a step toward mitigating future threats. The day is young and lockdowns are still in place, many lessons to be learned and questions to be answered... lots of very capable folks doing the ciphering.

A profoundly sad day that will reverberate in Canadian society for many years to come. Sincere condolences to the family of Cpl Nathan Cirillo.

[Fido]

from Megan Leslie, MP from Halifax:

I'm in hour 9 of lockdown. Happy to be safe. I know people are wondering what is going on. I don't have a lot of answers, but can tell you my experience.

That long, beautiful marble hall of arches is the Hall of Honour. On one side is a large room where the Conservative caucus meets; on the other is a large room, the Railway Room, where the NDP caucus meets. This was just another Wednesday morning, where I was meeting behind those doors with my colleagues.

About an hour into the meeting, we heard this sound - I certainly didn't think it was gunshots - it sounded like crashing, like pipes clanging maybe, or metal cans crashing. A security guard quickly came into our caucus room and barricaded the door with his body. He motioned for us to all get down. I then thought the noise was probably a protest or something...until the security guard made a gun signal with his hand. That was the first time I realized those sounds were gunshots, and they kept going and going, just on the other side of the door - it seemed forever.

We all got down, and quickly and quietly made our way to the sides of the room, away from the doors. Some of my colleagues started piling things in front of the door, tables, anything, to make a barricade. The shots kept firing.

Eventually the shots stopped. I think another security guard came into the room. We were quiet and on the ground. Then a guard motioned for us to get out of the room, through another door. We all ran out as quickly as we could, and the hall was filled with the metallic smell of gunpowder.

There's a tunnel leading from Centre Block, and security took us toward it. We got separated into two groups. I don't know where my colleagues went, but I know they're safe. I'm with, among others, fellow NS MP Peter Stoffer, and with Tom Mulcair. We were put into a room where we waited in silence for hours, under tables, with security taking control of the halls.

Mid-afternoon, the PM called to speak to Tom and provide an update. The security staff, the RCMP and Ottawa Police have all been excellent, taking control, giving us information, and ensuring our safety. About 2 hours ago we were told we were safe, that we could get up off the floor, talk, turn the lights on. Some House staff who are with us found us coffee and cheese a couple hours ago - not exactly gourmet, but it tasted great, and made us all feel a bit better.

My heart goes out to the family of Cpol Nathan Cirillo. His death was so senseless.

Hug your loved ones

[inchman]

Such a terrible tragedy at the National War Memorial. God's speed Cpl Cirillo and WO Vincent.

And a shame that free access to our national legislature will no doubt become a thing of the past. No one will want second guessing that another incident might happen on their watch, so the screws will be tightened.

I thought the Ottawa Mayor had an excellent interview on CNN. Harper, of course, stiff and vanilla.

The media have, once again, proved to any future perps that they will be martyred and made immortal by our publishing of their name and face around the world. From a Nothing to a worldwide name and picture on the news. What better way to go for someone who wants to "be somebody"?

I don't want or need to see him. I don't want or need to know his name. I don't want to know his manifesto.

[mo32a]

A sad day for Canada, but not the day to be dissing politicians or anyone else. Things happen fast and rumours get passed off as information because the public and media are screaming for answers. As with an aircraft crash we should wait for the correct information to come forth before passing judgement on the parties involved.

So sorry our innocence has been shattered.

[dagger]

Would like to know how the gunman, who had a criminal record dating back several years, got his hands on a long gun. If it was sold to him without a background check, it would be interesting to know whether our guns laws are severe enough - even the Americans require background checks, though that is often circumvented - and if they are, whether someone violated them in providing this guy with his weapon. Generally, criminal traffic in firearms is about handguns, not standard issue hunting rifles.

Secondly, someone has to answer for not toughening Parliamentary security as recommended in 2012.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/potential-flaws-in-parliamentary-security-pointed-out-in-2012-report/article21225945/#dashboard/follows/

Sadly, I also commend Coyne for this column. It's an uncomfortable truth.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/10/22/andrew-coyne-we-cant-stop-every-terror-attack-so-lets-brace-ourselves-and-adapt/

[CanadaEH]

Why is this being called a terrorist attack? Senseless murder, sure, but terrorism!? That just comes across as sensationalism to me. In this era of ISIS BEWARE! it seems over the top.

[Wolfhunter]

The gun control aspect of this is interesting from an academic point of view (I guess) and will certainly be part of the investigation. However, this guy would cheerfully have killed you, me or any other legal gun owner to obtain a weapon. For all we know, the other clown may have been driving with a suspended license.

[J.O.]

Why is this being called a terrorist attack? Senseless murder, sure, but terrorism!? That just comes across as sensationalism to me. In this era of ISIS BEWARE! it seems over the top.

Isn't terrorism a form of senseless murder?

Having spoken to folks in Ottawa who were locked down for several hours yesterday, I can say with certainty that they were terrorized. From Kip's comments re the lock down CFB Trenton, and when I think of the families of CF personnel who've seen two forces members senselessly murdered and another one badly injured, I'm pretty sure some of them will be feeling terrorized. A person doesn't need to be trained at an Al Queda or ISIS camp to be a terrorist.

[Trader]

The over-reaction will be to increase the surveilance culture. So we all, again, suffer - not those that perpetrate this but the average Canadian. More civil liberties will disappear.

But the issue here is Islam. Not Arabs or Muslims but radical Islam and, as this week has shown, twice, it exists in Canada. Why do we insist on tiptoeing around the issue? Why do we bow to the cries of racism and other rhetoric?

If these attacks had targeted a different race, Jews etc there would be absolute outrage (rightly) and massive exposure of those people/groups involved and who esposed similar views. If it was white supremists we would have raids, arrests etc.

These extremists were nutured in Canada--in mosques in Canada and it cannot be allowed to continue. Hate is hate and Canada has to start dealing with it in its own borders. One can't preach hatred against Jews (or deny the holocost) but we allow Islam in some Canadian mosques to preach the equivalent?

[dagger]

The over-reaction will be to increase the surveilance culture. So we all, again, suffer - not those that perpetrate this but the average Canadian. More civil liberties will disappear.

But the issue here is Islam. Not Arabs or Muslims but radical Islam and, as this week has shown, twice, it exists in Canada. Why do we insist on tiptoeing around the issue? Why do we bow to the cries of racism and other rhetoric?

If these attacks had targeted a different race, Jews etc there would be absolute outrage (rightly) and massive exposure of those people/groups involved and who esposed similar views. If it was white supremists we would have raids, arrests etc.

These extremists were nutured in Canada--in mosques in Canada and it cannot be allowed to continue. Hate is hate and Canada has to start dealing with it in its own borders. One can't preach hatred against Jews (or deny the holocost) but we allow Islam in some Canadian mosques to preach the equivalent?

I'm not sure where they were nurtured anywhere except on the Internet. Couture-Rouleau or whatever his name was was an infrequent worshipper at an informal mosque in St. Jean Sur Richelieu where some muslims met to pray. It didn't even have an imam. We'd do well to examine our mental health system, which has been severely cut back over the decades. It used to be that you could incarcerate a nut in an mental institution like Penatanguishine, but the Ontario government - I can't remember when or which government - closed it. I suspect these lone wolfs are more sick than they are dedicated to their religion. It's just a vehicle for them to express whatever they are expressing.

[dagger]

The gun control aspect of this is interesting from an academic point of view (I guess) and will certainly be part of the investigation. However, this guy would cheerfully have killed you, me or any other legal gun owner to obtain a weapon. For all we know, the other clown may have been driving with a suspended license.

Sure, but a number of serious crimes have been committed in the US by individuals with long criminal records, and the gun owner/neighbor/whatever who was legally entitled to buy a gun was prosecuted. You do want to set a deterrent for illegal guns sales, too.

[Specs]

The over-reaction will be to increase the surveilance culture. So we all, again, suffer - not those that perpetrate this but the average Canadian. More civil liberties will disappear.

But the issue here is Islam. Not Arabs or Muslims but radical Islam and, as this week has shown, twice, it exists in Canada. Why do we insist on tiptoeing around the issue? Why do we bow to the cries of racism and other rhetoric?

If these attacks had targeted a different race, Jews etc there would be absolute outrage (rightly) and massive exposure of those people/groups involved and who esposed similar views. If it was white supremists we would have raids, arrests etc.

These extremists were nutured in Canada--in mosques in Canada and it cannot be allowed to continue. Hate is hate and Canada has to start dealing with it in its own borders. One can't preach hatred against Jews (or deny the holocost) but we allow Islam in some Canadian mosques to preach the equivalent?

We will lose some liberties and freedom if the government gets their way and watching the media I think they're well on their way to achieving their goals. Don't ya just love the military industrial complex?

This guy and the fella in PQ were home grown and converted to Islam only recently. Was that fact even mentioned by any of the 'leaders' yesterday? All I heard was ominous warnings about a war being brought to our shores and how our resolve will be strengthened. (Must be an election coming) Those guys weren't terrorists. They were Mental Health cases and truth be told, provoked by the unwitting RCMP when their passports were taken away. They weren't ISIS idealists. They didn't go after civilians in a mall or on a train. . They went after military and government targets in retribution.

The authorities messed up big time on many levels but rather than accept being accountable, with the media's help, they'll spin it to cast blame elsewhere and use the whole episode to get new defence and security contracts and cozy up to the US.

[DEFCON]

When the inevitable cry for increased gun control comes, I hope everyone one will recall the May 1984 shoot-up of the Quebec Legislature. That crime was committed by a Corporal of the CAF who used a pair of military issue machineguns to do his dirty work. Strangely enough and in uniquely Canadian style, the offender was released on parole in 1996.

[Kip Powick]

Gun Control is a dead issue and to raise the issue will be akin to hearing a sparrow fart in a hurricane.

One of the biggest problems in Canada is a very weak and overly tolerant judicial system. Sentences for the vast majority of crimes is beyond weak.

One example...............drunk driving............imagine how fast the rate of drunk driving charges would go down if the scale of justice moved to mandatory prison time for just blowing over the limit......but oh-no...we can't do that...too many rights etc etc.

[chockalicious]

@Specs

Disagree with your characterization of the 2 as "mental health cases that were provoked by the RCMP." Honestly, to try to give these 2 losers and type of credit of provocation or justification is something I find saddening.

Your rush to judgment to minimize these guys is the equivalent of the war hawks on the other side of the spectrum. I watched most of the coverage yesterday and was on Twitter and the overwhelming majority of what I saw and heard were calls for restraint and calls that we don't let this incident change us.

These guys are terrorists. Their aim is to instill terror. ISIL calls for violence against non believers everywhere (along with taking a video) This killing is no different than the beheading of the soldier in the UK.

These 2 losers and others who have gone to Syria to fight are being radicalized in Canada, surely it is not your assertion that they are all mentally ill? There is an issue with Islam, not sure why this is so hard to accept. I am by no means saying that all Muslims are terrorists, far from it, but let's not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that there is an equivalency in other religions that call for Jihad.