Non Aviation & Not For The Faint Hearted

[DEFCON]

If this story isn't proof enough that something really has to be done in the name of sanity, I don't know what might be? Hasn't the time come for the west to begin to examine its policies related to religious freedom? If world peace is ever to be possible, perhaps it's time to ban religion all together?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11028586/Australian-boy-holding-severed-head-one-of-the-worst-images-world-has-ever-seen-says-John-Kerry.html

[J.O.]

Take away their religion and the world's fanatics would simply find another way to vent their festering spleens.

[Johnny]

Or if the western media simply quit reporting it.

[Wolfhunter]

During my career I've participated in 11 foreign deployments and collected a rack of medals in the process. At a wedding recently, a very pretty lady asked me about them and I ran through the inventory of this was for that and that was for this. On completion, it occurred to me that all (CD excepted) were directly or indirectly attributable to Islam. In other words, without Islam I would have spent a lot more time at home. Then again, without Islam, she likely would never have talked to me in the first place... sigh.

I fear J.O. has it right, fanatics will always find a way.

[Say Again, Over!]

Religion is not the true reason of all these conflicts but rather the excuse used by those who would rather be at war.

WRT to the young soldier's comment, let's also not forget that "war against muslims" might just be different than "war against Islam".

[deicer]

This raises the question that if Islam is a religion of peace, then where are the vast majority of moderate Muslims and why are they not speaking out and fighting back against the radicals who are giving them such a bad reputation?

[cp fa]

They do, it just never makes the news, and when it does, the neo con tea party types don't send it to everyone on their contact list.

[Guest longtimer]

They do, it just never makes the news, and when it does, the neo con tea party types don't send it to everyone on their contact list.

so how about giving us some links???? I have seen some but not many calling down the militants.

[GDR]

Here is an article from the National Post.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/23/toronto-iman-who-came-forward-with-concerns-about-al-qaeda-linked-terror-plot-wants-to-stay-anonymous/

TORONTO—A Toronto Muslim leader said Tuesday the father of one of the suspects arrested over an alleged plot to attack a VIA Rail train had approached him with concerns about his son’s hardening views of Islam.

Mohammed Robert Heft said the father had asked repeatedly for help with his son, Raed Jaser, 35. The discussions took place between 2009 and 2011, while the father was living in the basement of Mr. Heft’s home in Markham, Ont.

“He never mentioned anything to me about violence, he only mentioned to me about being rigid in his understanding of Islam, and it was concerning him because it was becoming intolerable in terms of having discussions about religion with his son.”

Mr. Heft was one of many imams and Muslim community leaders who were briefed by the RCMP on Monday about the arrests of Mr. Jaser and his co-accused Chiheb Esseghaier of Montreal. They have been charged with taking part in an al-Qaeda-linked plot to derail a passenger train on the New York to Toronto route.

But Mr. Heft said he did not realize his personal connection to the case until he saw photos of the Jaser family on Tuesday. The head of the non-profit group Paradise Forever, Mr. Heft said he was not the imam who had tipped off police about Mr. Jaser, triggering the investigation that lead to his arrest.

“Basically he came to me two to three times and mentioned to me two to three times that he was concerned about his son’s understanding of Islam and he would hope that I was able to talk to him to get him to soften up,” Mr. Heft said in an interview.

The father, Mohamed Jaser, made no mention of crime or violence, he added. “He was worried that the son was becoming too rigid, he was becoming too self-righteous, too much of a know-it-all, too much of, ‘everybody’s gotta follow me, gotta follow the religion according to how fast I want to follow it,’” he said.

“I said, okay, I’m ready, bring him to me. But he never brought him to me,” said Mr. Heft, an outspoken critic of extremism. “And I’m telling you, that’s the problem. I need to be able to get to the guy and at least put doubt in their mind.”

The imam who first brought forward concerns about Mr. Jaser wants to remain anonymous, his lawyer said Tuesday. Naseer Syed said the imam came to him more than a year ago about the suspect’s conduct. “It was enough of a concern and it passed a certain threshold than the imam felt comfortable with,” he said.

The lawyer said he then notified the appropriate authorities. On Monday, the RCMP credited the imam’s tip with helping bring terrorism-related charges against Mr. Jaser and Mr. Esseghaier.

Mr. Jaser is a Palestinian who came to Canada with his refugee claimant parents 20 years ago and recently became a permanent resident. Mr. Esseghaier, 30, came to Canada from Tunisia in 2008 on a student visa. Last year, he became a permanent resident through Quebec’s skilled worker program, a source said.

The suspects received “direction and guidance” from al-Qaeda in Iran, police said.

While the imam’s role has been widely reported, Mr. Syed said his law office, which works with many Muslim organizations, has acted similarly many times before.

He said the firm helps community members reach out to authorities, and also helps investigators who want to speak to community members. He said the relationship between the two has achieved a new level of comfort. “It’s always been there but it took a lot of time to develop the trust and the contact between the community and the agencies,” he said.

Meanwhile, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said Canadian Muslims played an “instrumental” role in the RCMP investigation that led to the arrests.

In an interview with the National Post, the minister compared the cooperation received from members of the Muslim community with the role Boston residents played in the capture of the marathon bombing suspect.

“The community involvement in dealing with these kinds of activities is absolutely essential. In that context I’d specifically want to point out the fact that the Muslim community was very instrumental in providing very crucial information that helped the police in this case,” he said.

He said both the Boston and Toronto terror cases showed that even with vast police resources, public assistance was invaluable. “We can’t simply rely on the police to do the work, we need the cooperation of the community.”

Our best defense against radical Islam remains moderate Islamists. You can get radicals in any group be they religious or not. Look at the Nazis, Stalinists or followers of Pol Pot. People, usually men, are liable to latch on to any movement that fuels their desire for power over others. All major religious beliefs as well most secular institutions include "The Golden Rule" in one form or another. The problem is. is that often doesn't fit the agenda of flawed human beings.

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

Greg

[Trader]

I think this woman says it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5X1_eGCJY

The worlds Muslims, moderate and all, quickly speak out about Palestine, American Imperialism etc etc. but are quiet when it comes to their rolls within Western societies.

This guy--well, he's not so quiet!

http://www.cbn.com/tv/1509282970001

Despite the source it is becoming an issue.

[DEFCON]

My concern; religion always seems to be the motivating force and justification behind most horrible mass attacks and so many individual murders. Can anyone explain why, in spite of claims to be peace loving, it appears that the God of any given group requires his subjects to promote their religion by employing violence as a tool to ensure dominance over and the compliance of anyone with a different belief system?

When two armies go to war and each is led by the same God; how does the loser justify God's rath against him? What do you do; pray more before the next battle?

[Mitch Cronin]

I think this woman says it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY5X1_eGCJY

The worlds Muslims, moderate and all, quickly speak out about Palestine, American Imperialism etc etc. but are quiet when it comes to their rolls within Western societies.

I'm not so sure it's fair to say they're quiet.... One difficulty lies in the fact that they don't have a hierarchical structure which would allow a single 'leader' to speak for the lot. Short of a return visit from Muhammad, their only 'authority' comes - like Christians and Jews - from an old book. ...and the folks who wrote that book wanted a peaceful society in the days when the only likely way to get that was through killing all the nearby warmongers... so it's reasonable to expect some of that mindset to leak it's way into their book.

....I complete;ly agree with that lady in the vid you posted though... Since any Islamic "Scholar" has potentially as much sway as any other, almost any interpretation of words within the Quran can gain 'followers'. So, certainly in the case of Muslims, "the peaceful majority" is indeed irrelevant. Especially to those in the crosshairs of any Muslims who hold to a different - or more radical - interpretation.

I'm becoming more and more of an atheist as I age.... I've started to wonder if religious folks, no matter their God, might be lacking some kind of sense.... like a functioning BS detector, or something of the sort?

​Actually, when you think about that... Natural selection may have even favoured, to some degree, those who could easily be persuaded to drink the cool-aid and join the clan?

[cp fa]

so how about giving us some links???? I have seen some but not many calling down the militants.

I'm sure everyone here knows how to use a search engine without me having to post links. Anyone that wants to find that information can find it, and if they don't, they're not interested in reading any links I post.

[Maverick]

http://www.cbn.com/tv/1509282970001

Despite the source it is becoming an issue.

That's about as depressing a video as I've ever seen.

[Trader]

Posted on Facebook this morning

http://www.examiner.com/article/muslims-demand-breakaway-islamic-nation-norway-or-another-9-11-threatened

[boestar]

Look way back... How many people have been killed in the name of Christianity? It is not one religion, it is ALL religions. It is also not ALL religious people. In any religion there are fanatics, people that take it to the extreme with a "My religion or die" mentality.

There are millions of people in the world, perhaps Billions that would die for their religious beliefs. It just so happens most of them are Islamic.

[Bunk Dweller]

Look way back... How many people have been killed in the name of Christianity? It is not one religion, it is ALL religions. It is also not ALL religious people. In any religion there are fanatics, people that take it to the extreme with a "My religion or die" mentality.

There are millions of people in the world, perhaps Billions that would die for their religious beliefs. It just so happens most of them are Islamic.

Agreed. I like to draw basic parallels to the Christian crusades. Christian armies overrunning cities and towns, killing all the non-believers, raping the women, pillaging and burning the towns. Sound like anything that might be going on today?

[DEFCON]

You guys are making my point, I think. In the modern time is it appropriate for a species that considers itself to be enlightened to go about crusading on behalf of imaginary friends?

[boestar]

appropriate? NO. Common? YES

[J.O.]

But the fanatacism is no different today than it was in the time of the crusades. They truly believe in what they are doing. You can call it brainwashing if you want but for the hard core believers, saying "no" to those beliefs would be equivalent to tying a plastic bag tightly over their own head. They'd suffocate.

[boestar]

J.O. I agree. The same can be said of any religion, anywhere in the world. Heck, in your own backyard there are religions fanatics.

[DEFCON]

I can't seem to cut and paste, so I'll just ask; is it me, but I can't stop laughing at the way JO's described the plastic bag over the head scenario in his last post....it's so true.

[Lakelad]

.

Halifax rights complaint accuses Air Canada of singling out Mohamed Yaffa because he’s black, Muslim


Mon August 18, 2014 - National Post
Joseph Brean

A Halifax man accuses Air Canada of repeatedly subjecting him to enhanced security procedures because he is black and Muslim, in a case that highlights the dangers to civil liberties posed by the controversial “no fly list.”

Before any hearing, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal has ordered the airline to confirm whether it trains staff to consider human rights and cultural sensitivity in its security procedures. Air Canada had resisted such disclosure on the grounds the procedures are governed by law.

Tribunal member David Thomas also ordered the complainant, Mohamed Yaffa, to disclose his medical records and human resources file because he claims to have suffered health and employment problems after being subjected to extra questioning six times before boarding Air Canada flights.

Mr. Yaffa is the diversity and inclusion coordinator at Capital Health, which operates hospitals and clinics in and around Halifax, and travels frequently as part of his job.

He spoke in an interview of the humiliation he felt at being repeatedly singled out for “excessive scrutiny,” having to endure passengers’ suspicious looks once on board.

He has never been denied boarding or told specifically his name is on the no fly list. He said he was told the issue was over his name.

“It was very humiliating,” he said. “It takes over your mind … You don’t know your crime.”

The first alleged incident was in March 2010; five others happened at airports mostly in Canada, but at overseas airports he declined to identify.

Mr. Yaffa said he did not know the reason for the extra questioning, but it focused on his identity and the frequency of his travel, and seemed to be motivated by his appearance as a black Muslim man.

“Being called Mohamed had something to do with it,” he said.

'This discrimination caused damages including depression, anxiety, insomnia and diminished self-esteem, and he seeks compensation for pain and suffering.'

.

[boestar]

This is the new Aviation. Get used to it.

[DEFCON]

Or he's really **bleep** the authorities are interfering with his game and he's taken the matter public in the hope that will force the security people off his tail.